Youtube interview of C.J. Grisham transcribed by Dr. Eric T. Karlstrom (ETK), Emeritus Professor of Geography, CSUS
“Should the practice of Spydom become universal, farewell to all domestic confidence and happiness.”
London Times, Christmas 1859
C.J. Grisham (while looking over his shoulder during this interview): Am I getting surrounded?
Interviewer: No, not yet. But they are deploying, it looks like. That’s good, I appreciate it.
Grisham: So what’s important though, the way to figure this out… Pay attention to the people who are constantly trying to undermine, even just a little bit. You know, people who are trying to sew the seeds of doubt. Because that’s the first step. When you’ve got someone in there where they pretend to support your cause, but they are injecting little seeds of doubt. A lot of times they will even say, “I’m just playing devil’s advocate.” That’s one indicator. It’s not always the case. But that’s one of the ways they’ll start to “undermine and gather.” So just be aware of those kinds of people.
… I’ve learned to not get close to too many people. My “circle of influence” is really small… My wife is my “circle of influence.”
The following interview clearly indicates that a quasi-covert, para-military or “civil-military” takeover has occurred in the United States and that government and quasi-governmental agencies now target American citizens and citizens’ groups as “the enemy.” Under the U.S. Northern Command (USNORTHCOM) doctrine, America, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, and The Bahamas have been re-defined as the “battlespace” (See M. Rich’s “New World War: Revolutionary Methods for Political Control,” 2011). USNORTHCOM, established in April, 2002, is a “Unified Combat Command of the U.S. Armed Forces” tasked with providing military support to civil authorities. USNORTHCOM and NORAD U.S. (Canadian North American Aerospace Defense Command) share the same commander and both are headquartered at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
In this interview, ex-Army “Counter-intelligence Officer,” C.J. Grisham, now the leader of “Open Carry Texas,” explains how the FBI’s JTTF (Joint Terrorism Task Force) and DHS Fusion Centers work in cooperation with other federal, state, local agencies and the U.S. military to target, infiltrate, and disrupt/disable individuals and groups in America.
Grisham here describes “counter-intelligence” tactics used by the FBI in their COINTELPRO (version 1.0) that are still being deployed in modern, covert counter-intelligence” (aka “counter-terrorism”) operations (“COINTELPRO version 2.0”) that I here refer to as “GOG’S NeW GESSTTTTTAPO” or simply, the “global gestapo.” These tactics include selection and profiling of targets, infiltrating and disrupting of domestic groups and individuals, recruiting of spies, and the “handling” of spies and informants.
Perhaps C.J. Grisham and his fellow co-conspirators, who are legion, should be made aware of the fact that depriving fellow American citizens of their Constitutional rights constitutes treason and that the penalty for treason includes capital punishment (Gang Stalking/Mind Control Is Treason (per U.S. Constitution, 14th Amendment, Section 3); 18 US Code 2381: Penalty Is Death or Imprisonment For 5+ years + Fine of $10,000+). They should also be informed that the “good German just obeying orders defense” did not prevail at the Nuremberg Trials following WWII and that the United States is signatory to the Nuremberg Code, which is still the law of the land (Six Great Legacies of the Nuremberg Trials that Still Impact the World Today.
Information provided herein begs the obvious question: Why should the American people continue to support a government-intelligence-military system that continues to target and kill innocent civilians in contravention of all their constitutionally-guaranteed rights and in blatant violation of the sworn oaths of the millions of political, military, and law enforcement personnel involved?
Transcription of Interview:
Interviewer: I’m here with C.J. Grisham. C.J., tell me a little about your background.
Grisham: “I am a 20+-year retired Army First Sargeant and Counter-Intelligence Special Agent. My official title was: Senior Counter-Intelligence Special Agent. I come from counter-intelligence interrogations. I was a Signal Intelligence Interceptor. So I did a little time working with the NSA sphere of things and towards the end of my career, other alphabet agencies.
Interviewer: Did you get to waterboard (torture) anybody?
Grisham: I got waterboarded when I went to SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) school. I didn’t get to do any waterboarding. But my day will come.
Interviewer: Tell me a little about how the government would conduct a COINTELPRO (counterintelligence) operation?
Grisham: I worked in the (FBI) Joint Terrorism Task Force for years. Fusion Centers and JTTF are almost synonymous.
CJG: If they’ve got a target, the first thing they want to do is learn everything about the target. They will go through your websites, you social media. They’ll go through your friends list. They’ll find out who the leaders are first. Those are the first targets. So they found out who are the leaders and what are their motivations. Everyone has their breaking points, or points that motivate people. People do things for a reason. So the first thing they want to do is to find out what makes these people tick?
Let’s use “Open Carry Texas” (OCT, my organization) as an example. So OK the leader is C.J. Grisham. What exactly is “Open Carry Texas?” Why did he form it? What are his reasons behind it? What is he trying to accomplish? And if we wanted to tear it down or if we wanted to wear him out, how would we do that?
The first thing is to attack, not attack, but target the leaders and learn everything about them. They go through all your social media. They look at your likes, the groups you are involved in. Then they go to your friends. They find out who you interact with the most. Then they target those people and start looking at all of their interests, and groups that they interact with.
Interviewer: And where would this information be accumulated? The Fusion Centers?
Grisham: The fusion centers is where all of this is accumulated. Now it comes from different areas because you have different aspects of it. So the FBI is involved in this. I worked in the (FBI’s) Joint Terrorism Task Force for many years. And the JTTF is made up of federal, state, and local law enforcement at all levels.
And I was in the Army, so obviously even the Army is involved. But with posse comitatus, our involvement is from the border out. So when a threat comes to the border, our job was to take that intel and pass it off to the domestic law enforcement wings once it gets onto domestic grounds. Because we in the Army can’t continue tracking that because that’s considered American soil.
They do that through the JTTF and the Fusion Centers. They are almost synonymous. Because the Fusion Centers generally can contain the JTTF. Or it’s just another nomenclature for the Fusion Center. But I think the Fusion Center is more of a state and local web domestically whereas the Joint Terrorism Task Force is both a federal, state and joint, but it’s also international.
Interviewer: Let’s say I wanted to run an op against Open Carry Texas, how would I perform that op? If I wanted to disrupt Open Carry Texas and interfere with the unit cohesion and everything I do, how would I do that?
Grisham: You want me to give you the tricks on how to tear down Open Carry Texas? (Laughs.) You can’t!
Interviewer: Just as an example.
Grisham: If I were a government agency and I wanted to infiltrate Open Carry Texas or really any group….
The first thing you do is get somebody who has a very vanilla presence. So even if it’s a law enforcement officer, it’s a very vanilla presence.
Or you find someone…. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who don’t like certain groups, like Open Carry Texas. And they will approach law enforcement and say, “I think there’s something going on, I’d like to help you.” So it’s not just people being recruited, it’s people asking to be recruited it’s people asking to be recruited as well.
So you get these people and they start going to all the functions. They start taking part in the events. They start working their way up the “trust ladder,” you know, that “circle of trust.” And they start gaining that influence. Once they’ve got you in there…
Let’s say I’m a government handler. Once I’ve got someone on the inside of this group…. the first thing you want to do is try to recruit other people that might be susceptible to that…..
And the way you do that is through almost subliminal type messaging. So you’ll say thing in a chat room…. Let’s say I’ve got a post about constitutional carry. And as a government agent, I’m trying to undermine I’m trying to undermine the push for constitutional carry.
I’m going to find out how many people like that comment or respond to me. Now I’ve found out who my allies are, as potentials. Then I start picking off those individual allies to find out if they have what’s called “placement and access.”
So you can have all the people in the world spying on you but if they don’t have access to the people who are making the decisions, then you’re not going to get anything. Because when you’ve got these “one-offers” out there doing things, it’s hard to pin down an entire organization because one guy goes out and does something. So you have to get the leadership.
So it’s a spider web. You go in there, you plant the seed. Someone eats the seeds and they poop out a few more seeds, and then you start picking off those.
Interviewer: What about getting someone in the hierarchy or somebody that is on the inside and getting some kind of criminal charge brought against them and then using them to disrupt the group? Would something like that be plausible?
Grisham: That’s plausible. But I think most of the leaders of organizations, especially if it’s a somewhat centralized organization….. OCT is not super centralized by we do have a point of leadership (me). So, for example, you can infiltrate (me) all day long if you want, but I’m not going to turn on my movement. So it’s really hard to pinpoint leaders you want to undermine because the leaders are not going to be the ones you will be able to change.
Now there are probably some people who, you know, you arrest them, you charge them with these bogus crimes. This is an option. Where you charge them with bogus crimes, you threaten with being in jail for the rest of their lives, BUT if you help me, we can make this go away.
The only people that have problems with that, who are susceptible to that, are the people who are doing things wrong. My Dad always taught me as long as you are always doing the right thing, you don’t have anything to worry about. So can charge me with everything in the world, but I know I’ve never done the wrong thing. So there’s nothing you can hold over me. There’s nothing to blackmail me with.
Am I getting surrounded?
Interviewer: No, not yet. But they are deploying, it looks like. That’s good, I appreciate it.
Grisham: So what’s important though, the way to figure this out… Pay attention to the people who are constantly trying to undermine, even just a little bit. You know, people who are trying to sew the seeds of doubt. Because that’s the first step. When you’ve got someone in there where they pretend to support your cause, but they are injecting little seeds of doubt. A lot of times they will even say, “I’m just playing devil’s advocate.” That’s one indicator. It’s not always the case. But that’s one of the ways they’ll start to “undermine and gather.”
So just be aware of those kinds of people. I’ve learned to not get close to too many people. My “circle of influence” is really small.
Interviewer: Yeah, you live under the “castle commander.”
Grisham: Yeah. My wife is my “circle of influence.” Unless she tells me to turn on everybody.
Interviewer: All right, C.J., thank you.
ETK Comment: Perhaps this nation should begin hanging spies again! I’m sure the 800+ FEMA camps would be entirely inadequate to house all of America’s spies today. This fool, C.J. Grisham, obviously believes that he is doing good in the world. What he is actually doing, however, is helping his higher ups shred the U.S. Constitution. By definition, this is treason.
Remember, the “good German just obeying orders” defense did not work for German soldiers at the Nuremberg Trials.
Video showing Houston FBI questioning young videographer standing his ground in front FBI building.
ETK comment: Congratulations to this brave videographer for turning the tables and spying on the criminal FBI. We should all be doing this at fusion Centers and Joint Terrorism Task Force Centers. The U.S. government has decided that the American people are the enemy. Welcome to hell.